by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> this is a fox news special presentation. >> good evening from hofstra university. i'm shepard smith. president obama and his challenger, mitt romney, take the stage for the second of three debates. the presidneent himself said he had a bad night. romney's showing has put him ahead in state and national polls. the president described the race

as 'tied' for the first time. this race is clearly neck and neck. unlike the first debate, where the moderator asked questions, this is a town hall debate. some of the people here will grill the candidates on foreign policy. the candidates may move around a bit. organizers say governor romney won the coin toss and chose to go first. the moderator is candie crowley, of cnn, the first woman in 20 years to moderate a debate. she's warned us to be quiet. now, candie crowley. >> good evening from hofstra university. i am candie crowley from cnn's

state of the union. the gallup orgn anization chose 85 unaffiliated voters. the questions are knwoown to me and my team only. i hope to get to as many questions as possible. and because i am optimistic, i hope the candidates will keep their answers on point. they have two minutes and a two- minute follow-up. no cheering or booing or outbursts. we set that aside just this once to welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. [applause]

[applause] [applause] >> gentlemen, thank you y bot fr joining us.w . we have a lot of folks who want to talk to you. governor romney, you won the coin toss. the first question goes to you. we go to a first-time voter, jeremy epstein. >> as a 20-year old college student i,a all i hear is there is little chance of employment when i graduate. what would you tell my parents about how i can support myself when i graduate. >> thank you for being here and

all of you from nassau county, and thank you to hofstra university and candie crowley, and thank you, mr. president. your question is asked by college kids all over the country. this is in philadelphia, she just graduated and said, "i can't find a job. i have three part-time jobs. i can barely pay for food and an apartment." we have to make it easier to afford college and make sure when they get out of college, there's a job. when i was governor, to pass a high school degree, you had to pass an exam, and if you were in the top 25%, we had the john and abigail scholarship. i want to keep the pell program

growing and the key thing is to get a job when you get out. what has happened has been very hard for america's young people the last four years. i know what it takes to get the economy going.w -- going. with half the kids graduating without a college level job is unacceptable. and more debt on your back. i know what it takes to create good jobs again and to make sure you have the opportunity you deserve. we are bringing back an economy. it ilwill not be like the last four years. i know what it takes to bring them back. when do you gradulate? 2014. when you graduate, i presume i will be president and make sure

you get a job. >> mr. president? >> first of all, your future is bright, and the fact you're makin gag an investment in highr education is critical. we have to make sure that we are making good-paying jobs in this company, and what i want to do is build on the 5 million jobs we've created in the private sector, and there are many things s we can do to make sure the future is bright. i want to build manufacturing jobs. when romney said detroit should go bankrupt, we invested and it has come surging back. we change our tax code to give incentives to companies in the

u.s. and we help them and small businesses export in new markets. we have to make sure we have the best education system in the world. the fact you are going to college is great but i want everyone to have an education. we've worked hard to give student loans and we need to retrain for the jobs out there and for the future. we have to control our own energy. not only oil and natural gas, but make sure we a building the energy source of the future. not just next year, but 20 years from now. so we invest in solar and biofuels. energy-efficient cars. asking the wealthy to pay more so we cnan invest in

education like yours. and let's use the moenney we've spent on war the last decade on funding. and your future will be bright and america as well. >> mr. romney, what can you do? we look at a situation where 40% of the unemployed are unemployed for four years or more. what about the long-term unemployed who need a job now. >> you have 23 million people needing a job, who have been out of work a long time. the president's policies have been exercised and haven't put american's to work. the unemployment rate was 7.8%

when he took office, and it is 7.8% now. it would be 10.7 % with those who dropped out. i have a 5-point plan that gets americans 4 million new jobs -- and it will help those unemployed right now. one thing the president said, he said, i said to make detroit go bankrupt. i wanted them to go through bankruptcy like 7-11 and macy's and come out stronger. the president took detroit hrysler, and gm,ystler and you actually did. that was a process that was necessary to get the companies

back on their feet. that is precisely what i recommended. >> candie, what governor romney said just isn't true. he wanted to take them into bankruptcy without giving them a way to stay open and we'd have lost a million jobs. take the executives at gm and chrysler, who may have been republicans and supported gov. romney. he doesn't have a 5-point plan. he has a 1-point plan, to make sure that the folks at the top play by different rules. it's the philosophy as governor and in the private sector and the presidential race. you can ship jobs overseas and get tax breaks, ayoand you can

invest in a company, bankrupt it, and still make money. that is the philosophy we've seen for the last decade. we've fought back four years to get out of that mess. the last thing we need to do is go back to those policies. >> mr. romney, there will be chances to go on. i will let you -- i will let you -- >> the rest of the answer is off the mark. >> you will have time coming up. i have something sort of connected to cars. this is from phillip sircola. >> your energy secretary, stephen chu has been on record

saying, it is not the policy of his department to lower gas prices. do you agree this is not the job of the energy department? >> the most important thing we can do is control our own energy. here is what i've done. we've increased oil production to the highest level in 16 years, natural gas is the highest in decades. increases in coal production and employment. i've also said, we can't just produce traditional energy, but look to the future. we doubled fuel efficiency standards. any car you buy, you will go twice as far on a gallon of gas. we doubled clean energy, wind, solar, biofuels.

we lowered oil imports to the lowest level in 16 years. i want to build on that. we still continue to open new areas for drilling, and it is a priority to go after natural gas.s. hav h 600,000 jobs and 100 wtiiths ofyears of energy natural gas. and we have to know how we have efficient energy. this sis what will keep gas prices lower. gov. romney says he has all of the above plan, but his plan is to let the oil companies write the energy policies. he has the oil and gas part, but not the clean energy part. if we only think of tomorrow and not 10 years from now, we

won't control our own economic future. china, germany, they are making these investments. i will not cede those jobs of the future to those countries. i expect them to be here in the u.s. that will help jeremy get a job and you won't pay as much for gas. >> let's look at his policies and not the rhetoric. we've had four years of policies. hes's right with the oil production. none of it came out of federal land. it is down 14%, and gas production is at 9%. he cut in half the permits for drilling on federal lands and waters. a lot of it came from north dakota, the bakhan range.

they gave a criminal action for drilling for oil. 20 or 25 birds, and they brought out a migratory bird act. i want to make sure we use our oil and gas and nuclear and renewables. ethanol, wind, solar will be important. but we don't need the president to keep us from using oil, gas. this has not been mr. oil, gas, or coal. i was in coal country. they grabbed my arms and said, 'save my job." the head head of the epa said you can't build a coal plant. when the president ran for office. you can build a coal plant, but you will go bankrupt.

let's use the energy resources we have and the energy sources for the future. if we do what i plan, getting us energy independent, within eight years, you see manufacturing jobs come back. our energy is low cost. they are beginning to come back. i will get america and north america energy independent. we will bring a pipeline in from canada. how he said no to that, i will never know. this is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of america. >> let me move you to the gist. are we looking at the new normal? a lot of people will find the price of gas is $4. is it in the purview of the government to bring it down, or

is this the new normal? >> the world demand is up but our production is going up. very little of what gov. romney just said is true. we opened up public lands and drill more than the previous administration, and the previous president was an oil man. natural gas doesn't appear magically, we encourage it. and when gov. romney says he is a coal guy. when you were the governor of mass, you stood in front of a coal plant and said "this plant kills," you shut it down. suddenly you are a big champion of coal. what i try to do is be consistent. we made the largest investment in clean coal technology, so we

oducece more coal but prdocu it smarter. our oil imports are at the lowest level in 20 years. oil production is up, natural gas is up, and we have cars that are more efficient. those cars can be exported. that is the demand around the world and it will save money in your pocketbook, and that's what we'll do in the next four years. >> but that's not what you've done in the last four years. you cut permits and licenses in federal lands and waters -- >> that is not true. >> we have produced more oil. >> how much did you cut this? >> i had a question, how much

did you cut them by? >> i am happy to answer the question. you had a bunch of ioil companies with leases they were not using. we said you can't sit on this for 30 years, decide when you want to drill, when it is most profitable for you. if you want to drill on public lands, you use it or lose it. we took away those leases, and are reletting them to make a profit. and production is up. >> production is down. it is down 14%. >> what you are saying is just not true. >> there is no question. >> i'll give you your time. >> we have lowered on federal land and waters. coal jobs are not up. some 12,000 people lost their

jobs. the right course -- is to have an all-of-the-above policy. you won't push for oil and gas. i don't believe -- >> that wasn't a question. that was a statement. i will fight for oil, coal , and natural gas. the proof is at the pump. if you're paying less than a year ago, it is working. the price here -- was $1.86 a gallon, now it is $4.00. if it is working, the price of energy comes down. i will fight for more energy to keep america secure and i will bring in a pipeline using the

oil we have -- drilling offshore in alaska. that will get us the energy we need. >> mr. president, could you address -- what the governor said, which is if your energy policy was working, the price of gas would not be $4.00. >> he said the price of gasoline was $1.80, $1.86. it was becasue wuse the economys on collapse. because we were about to go through the biggest collapse since the great depression. he can bring down gas prices because with his policies, we may be in the same mess. i want an economy that is strong

. and with this pipeline -- we've build enough pipeline to wrap around the entire earth once. i'm all for pipelines and oil production. but i am not for us ignoring the other half of the equation. when governor romney says these are imaginary jobs, and you have thousands in colorado working to create wind-power with manufacturing jobs, and the republican senator in iowa is all for it, and governor romney says, i'd get rid of it. strategyhat's not an energy for the future. >> he got the first question, so i get the last answer. >> in the follow up, it doesn't work like that.

but i'll give you a chance. the next question is for you. if you want to continue on. >> i don't have a policy of stopping wind jobs in iowa. they are not p pnt pom jobs. i appreciate real jobs -- wind jobs and coal and oil and gas, i'm going t oo -- >> ok. >> we will get through a very aggressive energy policy. it is critical to the future. >> i'm used to being interrupted. >> i'm moving you both along to taxes. this question comes from mary palano. >> governor romney, you stated if you are elected president, you would reduce rates for all tax brackets, and work with the

congress to eliminate deductions to make up for the loss in revenue. concerning these deductions, the mortgage, the charitable, the child tax credit, and what's the other credit, i forgot. >> you're doing great. >> oh, i remember. the education credits, which are important to me. i have children in college. what are your positions on those. >> you're right about part of that. i want to bring the rates down and simplify the tax codes and get the middle income to have lower taxes. middle-income taxpayers have been buried over the last four years. you've seen income go down

$4,300 a family, as gasoline goes up $2,000. health insurance, food prices up, utility prices up. the middle class has been crushed. i want to get relief to them. i will bring rates down across the board. i will limit the deductions for people at the high end. % of the5% will pay 60 income tax. middle-income people will get a tax break. one weay oay of doing that -- everyone gets $25,000 in deductions. home mortgage, child tax

credit, you can use that for your deductions. but the rate comes down and the burden comes down because every middle income tax payer, won't play tax on interest, dividents, ds, or capital gains, no taxes on your savings. if you get interest from a bank, a statement from a mutual fund. you don't have to worry about filing taxes for that. there will be no taxes for those making $200,00 o0 or less. under the last four years, the middle class has been buried. i will not, under any circumstances, reduce the share being paid and will not, under any circumstances, incrasease

taxes on the middle class. the spending and borrowing will cause them to have to raise taxes. the people on the middle class will see $4000 more in taxes because of this administration. i will get us on track to a balanced budget. it will help those families and create incentives to start growing jobs again. >> thanks, governor. >> my philosophy is simple. i want to get middle class families and those who are striving to get there, relief. they've been hit over the last 20 years. i said, i would cut taxes for middle class families. i cut it by $3600.

and small businesses, who have been cut 18 times. i want to continue those tax cuts for middle class families and small businesses. what i also said, is if we're serious about lowering the deficit and if this is a moral obligation, we've go ttt to make sure the wealthy do a bit more. the first $250,000, no change. families, 97% of small businesses. i am willing to sign that. but governor romney's allies held them hostage because they

want breaks for the 2%. we can go back to the tax rates from when clinton was president. 23 million new jobs. that took us from deficit to surplus. it will be good for the economy and job creation. different washas a philosophy. he was asked on "60 minutes" if it was okay for him to pay a lower tax rate than a bus driver or someone -- and he said it was and it grows the economy. what grows the economy is when we get the tax credit to send your kids to college. and when small businesses get a credit for hiring veterans.

we have a different theory. here,omney stands after he stood on stage, after he said tax cuts -- tax rate cuts -- x rate cuts, but thato the top percent, that is t going to work if we want an economy that is thriving for everyone. >> gov. romney, i'm sure you have a reply. >> the top 5% will continue to pay 60% and i am not looking to cut taxes for wealthy people. why do i want to bring rates down and at the same time lower exemptions? if you bring rates down, it is easy for small business to keep

their capital and hire people. for me, it is about jobs. i want to get the economy going again. they arerkers -- able to hire more people. i look at the last four years and say this is a disappointment. we don't have to settle for 541 months of unemployment over 8%. the are 3.5 million more women in poverty than when he took office. my five-point plan does it. energy independence. opening trade in latin america, cracking down on china. balancing the budget and fixing

training programs and championing small business. i spent my life in the private sector. i know why jobs go. they come from the policies of this president. >> mr. president, the governor says he won't allow the top 5% to have a tax cut. that it will all even out. he wants to give that to the middle class. settled? >> no, it's not settled. look, the cost of lowering rates for everyone, across the board, 20%. along with what he also wants to do to eli estate tax, and corporates, changes in the tax codes? it costs $ 5 trillion.

$3 trillionts to spend on military spending they do not want, and $ trillion in the bush tax cuts. he says he wants to make sure it does not add to the deficit. when he is asked -- deficit -- what he will close, he won't say. the fact he pays 14% on his taxes -- capital gains are going to continue to be a low rate. we won't get money that way. we haven't heard any specifics besides big bird and planned parenthood in terms of how he pays for that.

gov. romney was a successful investor. if someone said, "i want to spend 7 or $8 trillion buand i can't pay for it, but i won't say how -- he wouldn't thake ake the sketchy deal and neither would you. what's at stake is that this blows up the deficit. this is just to pay for the additional spending he's talking about, the $8 trillion. or alternatively, they have to close you will pay for this.

>> let me get the governor in on this. before we get into what study says what. if there is not enough tax revenue coming in, would you be willing to look at a 20%. >> of course they add up. i was someone who ran businesses for 25 years and balanced the budget. i ran the olympics and balanced the budget. i ran the state of massachusetts -- let's talk about math thtat doesn't add up. $4 trillion in deficits. we talk about a plan in a way that is foreign to my real plan.

and then we have his own record. four consecutive years, he said he would cute the deficit, but he's doubled it. we've gone from $10 trillion in debt to $16 trillion, and we'd go to $20 trillion. i nknow what it takes to balance budgets. when you say it is the $8 trillion cut -- >> candie -- >> i need to have you both hang it up. i understand the stakes. but i wil lgel get run out of town. >> i showed precisely how i do it. they can put their deductions. >> mr. president, we're keeping

track. the next question is for you. >> looking forward to it. >> catherine fenton has a question. >> in what new ways do you plan to rectify the inequalities of the workplace, with females making 74% of what their counterpars earn? >> it is a great question. i was raised by a single mom, who put herself through school while raising two kids, and who sacrificed to make sure we had what we needed. my grandmother was a secretary in a bank and never got acollege education. she worked to be a vice- president at a local bank

but hit the glass ceiling. she trained people who became her bosses. this is why the first bill i signed was the lilly ledbetter bill. it was named after an amazing woman who had beneen doing the same job as a man for years, paidouound out she was being less, and the supreme court said she should have said something earlier. we changed that and this is what we need. the women are increasingly the breadwinners. there is a family issue, a middle class issue. this is why -- we have to make sure that young people are able to afford a college education.

gov. romney wants to make pell grants accessible for young people. but that is what we've done. we've expanded them for millions of people, and millions of young women. that was560 billion going to banks and lenders and said, let's cut that out and give the money to students. we've seen millions of young people afford college. and that ensures young women can compete. we have to enforce the laws and make sure that in every walk of life we don't tolerate discrimination. i will push on this issue the next four years. >> pay equity for women, gov. romney.

>> an important topic, as i learned about as governor. i put together a candidate and -- cabinet and the staff was all men. i said, why are they all men. women whoa't wan't we find are qualified? we had an effort to find women to be members of the cabinet. they brought us binders full of women. i was proud of the fact that after i staffed my cabinet, the university of new york did a survey anof all 50 stats and showed i had more women in a senior position than any other. we did this because -- sometimes

to have women in the workforce, they have to be flexible. she said she had two children and had two kids and couldn't be here until 7:00 pm. i said, let's have a flexibile at worksule thta for you. we have to have employers so anxious for good workers, they will be anxious for new -- women have lost 580,000 jobs in the last four years. 3.5 million women more in poverty than four years ago. what we can do is have an economy so strong they will have employees and adapt to a

flexible work schedule that gives women opportunities they would not otherwise afford. i know what a working economy looks like. an economy with 7.8% unemployment is not strong. an economy with 28 million looking for work -- and 50% of kids graduating from college not finding a college-level job. i will help women find good work -- >> mr. president? >> when governor romney's campaign was asked about the lilly ledbetter bill, he said "i'll get back to you." that's not the advocascy that

women need in any economy. there are other bearings -- such as health care. a major difference in this campaign is that gov. romney is comfortable having politicians in washington decide the health care choices women are making. i said insurance companies need to provide contraception coverage. this is not just a health issue, but an economic issue. this is money out of that family's pocket. gov. romney said that employers sould bhould be makine decision about if a woman gets contraception through insurance coverage. that is not the advocacy women

need. and we should eliminate funding for plan parenthood. there are millions who use it for mammograms and cervical cancer screeinings. that is a pocketbook issue. when we talk about child care, and the credits we're providing. that makes a difference on if they can earn a living for their families. these are not just women's issues. these are family issues. one thing that makes us grow is when everyone participates, and women get the same fair deal men are. i want to make sure my two daughters have the same opportunities as anyone's sons

have. >> i want to move us to susan katz. the question is for you, governor. >> gov. romney, i am undecided because i am disappointed with the lack of progress in the last four years. i do attribute mmost of the problems of the failings and missteps of the bush administration. because you and bush are republicans, i fear a return to the policies of those years. what is the biggest difference between you and george w. bush and how do you differentiate yourself? >> i want to make sure -- i thought i should get the last answer. >> i don't think so.

our timekeepers are working. >> the last part -- it is for the two of you to talk to one another, and it is not as ordered. use the two minutes. the question is on the floor. >> i don't think bureaucrats in washington or employers should tell employers they should have contraceptive care. and the president's statement of my policy is wrong. let me answer your question. president bush and i are different people, and these are different times. my 5-point plan is different from what he would have done. we can use new technology to get all our energy from venezuela anhere instead of vend

we can become energy-secure. and trade -- i will crack down on china. president bush didn't and i will expeanand trade in latin america. number three, i will get us to a balanced budget. bush didn't presiden. president obama said it was outrageous to have $3 trillion deficits, but he added to that and his next four years are almost as large. and championing small business. our party has been focused on big business too long. i came through small business. everything i'll do will help small businesses grow.

i want to keep the taxes down on small business. and i want regulators to encourage enterprise. the most troubling thing about obamacare is that when you talk to small businesses -- they say it keeps them from hiring more people. my priority is jobs. president bush ahd had a different path from a different time. my path is to use small businesses to hire people. >> mr. president? >> well, first of all, i wil l say, we were losing 800,00 ijobs a monthw ne when started. we had policies wehrhere the top

did well and the middle class did not. we've had 31 months of job growth, 5.1 million new jobs created. when gov. romney says he has a different economic plan, the centerpiece is tax cuts. that's what took us from surpluse to deficit. when he talks about getting tough on china, keep in mind, gov. romney invested in companies that pioneered in outsourcing to china, and invests in companies that surveillance equipment to spy on their own folks. we have set up a task force for

trade that goes after anyone taking advantage of american businesses. we've brought twice as many cases against unfair trade practices and won every one that has benen decided. i said we had to make sure china was not flooding the market with cheap tires, romney said i was being protectionist. but i saved 1000 jobs and those are the trade actions that are required. the other point -- there are some ways he is different. george bush didn't propose turning medicare into a voucher. he embraced imigration reform, but didn't call for self- deportation. he never suggested eliminating funding for planned parenthood.

ther is not on economic policy. he's gone to a more extreme place with social policy. that is not how we move forward. >> our next question is in the same wheelhouse. the president does get this question, friom michael jones. >> mr. president, i voted for you in 2008. what have you accomplished to earn my vote in 2012. most of the things ineei need e expensive and i am not as optimistic. >> we've gone through a tough four years. but four years ago, i said i'd cut taxes for the middle class, and did.

and i'd cut taxes for small business, i did. i said we'd closend the war in iraq, we did. i said i'd focus on those who attacked us on 9/11, and osama bin laden is dead. i said we'd put in health reform to give affordable insurance -- and i said i'd reign in the excess of wall street. we've gone from 800,000 jobs being lost and saved an auto industry on the verge of collapse. a lot of us are struggling. that is why the plan for education and reducing the deficit, using the savings from

ending wars and putting america to work, making sure that we are controlling our o energy, not just of today but of the future. the commitments i've made, i've kept. those i haven't been able to keep, it is not for lack of trying and we will get it done in a second term. gov. romney has made some commitments as well. i expect he'll keep those. when the congress says they will sign a no-tax pledge to not ask a dime from millionaires to invest in education and getting kitds to college, he said, "me too." cutting planned parenthood

funding, "me too." and cutting obamacare, the same health care plan -- hfrom massachucets -- hts -- he said e too." the choice in this election are whose promises will help you in your life and make sure your kids go to college. making sure that medicare and social security are there for you. >> governor? >> i think you know better. i think you know the last four years are not so good as he described. and you're not confident the next four years will be as good. you will get a repeat of the last four years. we can't afford four more years like the last four. he said unemployment would be

5.4%. the difference is 9 million americans without work. i wasn't the one who said 5.4%. he said he would, by now, put forward a plan for medicare and social security. he said he'd get it done. he hasn't made a proposal. he'd put out an immigration plan -- didn't even file it. he has not been able to do what he said he'd do. he said he'd cut in half the deficit. he didn't do that, he doubled it. he said middle income families would have a reduction of $2,500 a year, and it has gone up that much. if obamacare is implemented, it

is another $2,500. the middle class is crushed under the policies of a president who doesn't understand -- he says he created 5 million jobs after losing 5 million. unemployment has not been reduced. the number of people looking for work are 23 million americans. how about food stamps? 32 million people were on food stamps. now 47 million are on food stamps. the economy is growing more slowly this year than last year, and more slowly last year than the year before. he wants to do well, but the policies in place, from obamacare to dodd-frank and regulatory policies have not let

the economy take in a grow. better?ave a chancone working in the reagan recession where it was 10.8%. ronald reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs. 5 million jobs doesn't keep up with population growth. and unemployment seems better because of thsoose who dropped out. he's great as a speaker, and describing his plans and visions. but we have a record to look at and he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit and preserve medicare and social security. median income is down $4300 a

family. it is about who can get the middle class a bright future and assure our kids the optimism they deserve. >> we will have plans to respond but i want a different subject. at lorena -- she has a question. >> this is for gov. romney. we will be right with you. >> lorraine. how are you doing. mr. president. romney, what are your plants on dealing with immigrants without green cards who live here as productive members of society. >> thank you for your question. let me talk about what i want to do, broadly.

this is a nation of immigrants. we welcome people in, and my grandfather was from mexico and my wife's father was from wales. i want the legal system to be better and clearer. you shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to figure out how to get in. and we need to give green cards to people who have what we need. get a green card on your diploma, come to the u.s.a. we have to stop illegal immigration. 4 million people are waiting to get here legally. i will not grant amnesty to those here illegally. there will be employment

verification and i won't put in place magnets for people coming here illegally. i would not give drivers licenses to them as the president would. the kids -- they when the president ran for office, he said he would put in place that would reform our immigration system. he did not do it. he had a democrat house and a democrat senate. why did he fail to promote legislation that would have provided an answer for those who wanted to come here legally and for those who were here illegally today? that is a question at the

present will have a chance to answer right now. >> we are a nation of immigrants. we all understand what this country has been, because talent from all around the world wants to come here. people are willing to take risks. we are also a nation of laws. we need to fix a broken immigration system. i have done everything i can on my own and saw -- sought cooperation from congress. make it easier, simpler, and cheaper for people who are waiting in line, zero bank the law, to make sure they can contribute to the country -- oh

beene of the law, to make sure they can contribute to the country. we do have to do with our border. we put more border patrol and the flow of undocumented workers is of lower than it has been in 40 years. if we're going to go after folks who are here illegally, we should do it smartly in go after folks who are criminals, people who are hurting of the community. not after students, not after folks pooh are here because they're trying to figure out how to feed -- folks who are here because they're trying to talk to figure out their families. they have gone to school year, pledged allegiance to the flag, think of this as their country. we should make sure we give them

a pathway to citizenship. that is what i have done. governor romney just said that he wants to help elthe th people, too. during the republican primary, he said, i will veto the dream act. his main strategy during the primary was to say, we will encourage self-deportation. making life so miserable that they will leave. he called the arizona lot a model for the nation. law-enforcement officers could stop folks because they suspected maybe they looked like they were undocumented workers. and check their papers. if my daughter or yours looks into somebody like they are not a citizen, i do not want to empower somebody like that. we can fix this system in a

comprehensive way. when governor romney says the challenge is that barack obama did not try, that is not true. i sat down with democrats and republicans at the beginning of my term. i said, let's fix this system. it is very hard for republicans in congress to support comprehensive immigration reform. >> let me get the governor in here, mr. president. in its bid to the idea of self- deportation. -- let's speak to the idea of self-deportation. >> i did not say that the arizona law was a model for the nation. i said the e-verify portion of the law was a model for the nation.

asked the president a question. he was ousted this the other day. quiet when you said you would file legislation in your first year -- why it when you said you would file legislation in your first year it did not you do it? i am glad you thought it was -- four years ago, you said you would file legislation. in its first year, i was just licking my wounds from having been beaten by john mccain. we'reeportation, let's -- not going to round up 12 million people and take them out of the nation. let people make their own choice. if they find that they cannot get the benefits they want and they cannot find the jobs they want, they will make a decision

to go place where they have better opportunities. i am not in favor of rounding up people and taking them out of this country. i am in favor if people have committed crimes, we have to get them out of the country. when he was describing the chinese investments -- >> hold on a second. >> go ahead and finish, governor romney. do you see all these people? they have been waiting for you. >> any investment i have had have been managed by a blind trust. i understand they do include investments outside the united states. having looked at your pension? mr. president, having looked at your pension? >> it is not as big as yours. [laughter] i do not check it that often.

>> look at your pension. you also have investments in chinese companies. you also have investments -- >> we are way off topic, governor romney. if i could have you sit down, governor romney. >> governor romney says he was not referring to arizona. his top advisor on immigration is the guy who designed the arizona law. not e-verify, the whole thing. it is a bad policy and it will not help us grow. when we think about immigration, we have to understand, there are folks all around the world who still see america as the land of promise. they provide as energy and they provide less innovation and they start companies like intel and google and we want to encourage

that. we have to make sure that we do it in a smart way and we make a legal system better. when we make this into a divisive political issue, and we to do not have bipartisan support, i can deliver, governor, a whole bunch of democrats to get comprehensive reform done. >> mr. president, let me move you want. mr. president. >> it is time for them to get serious on it. >> do not go away. >> good evening, mr. president. this question comes from a brain trust. we were sitting around talking about libya. we were reading and became aware of reports that the state

department refused extra security for our embassy in benghazi, libya, prior to the attacks that killed four americans. who was it that denied enhanced security and why? >> let me talk about our diplomats. they serve all around the world. they do an incredible job in a very dangerous situation. these are not just representatives of the united states, they are my representatives. i send them there. oftentimes, in harm's way. i know these folks and i know their families. nobody is more concerned about their safety than i am. as soon as we found out that the benghazi consulate was being overrun, i was on the phone with my national security team and i gave them three instructions. beef up our security and procedures in every embassy in the region.

investigate exactly what happened. regardless of where the facts lead us to make sure that folks are held accountable and it does not happen again. we're going to find out who did this and we will hunt them down. one of the things i have said about my presidency, when folks mess with americans, we go after them. governor romney had a very different response. while we were still dealing with our diplomats being threatened, and governor romney put out a press release trying to make political points. that is not how commander-in- chief operates. you do not turn national security into a political issue. certainly not right when it is happening. not everybody agrees with some of the decisions i've made. when it comes to national security, i mean what i say. i said i would end the war in

iraq and baghdad. i said we would go after al qaeda and bin laden and the half. i said we transitioned out of afghanistan and start making sure that afghans are responsible for our own -- their own security and that is what we're doing. when i say we're going to find out exactly what happened, everybody will be held accountable, and i am ultimately responsible for what is taking place there because these are my folks, i am the one was to upgrade those coffins when they come home, -- greet those coffins when they come home, you know i mean much based -- you know i mean what i say. >> thank you for your question. i think the president said correctly that the buck does stop at his desk. he takes responsibility for that failure in providing the security resources and those terrible things may well happen from time to time. i feel very deeply sympathetic

for the families who lost loved ones. there is a memorial service for one of those who was lost in that tragedy. there were other issues associated with this tragedy. there were many days that passed before we knew whether this was a spontaneous demonstration or whether it was a terrorist attack. there was no demonstration involved, it was a terrorist attack. it took a long time for that to be told to the american people. i think you have to ask yourself, why did we know five days later when the ambassador to the united stations went on tv to say this was a demonstration, how could we of not known? on the day following the assassination of the united states ambassador, the first time that has happened since 1979, but we have four americans killed, we did not know what happened, the president, the day

after that happened, flies to las vegas for a political fund- raiser ara n nday to colorado for another political event. these actions taken by a president and leader have symbolic significance. perhaps even a material significance and that he hoped during that time you could call in the people that were eyewitnesses. we read their accounts. this was not a demonstration, this was an attack. this calls into question the president's policy in the middle east. look at what is happening in syria, in egypt, in libya. consider the distance between ourselves and israel. the president said he was going to put daylight between us and israel. iran is four years closer to a nuclear bomb. syria is a strategic significant player. the president's policy began

with an apology. this strategy is unraveling before our very eyes. >> because we are closing in, i want to get a lot of people. i want to ask you something, mr. president. your secretary of state has said that she takes full responsibility for the attack on the diplomatic mission in benghazi. does the buck stopped with your secretary of state? >> secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job. she works for me. i'm the president. i am all is responsible. that is why nobody is more interesting inf -- interested in finding out what happened then i am. the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden and i told the american people and the world that we're going to find out what exactly happened. this was an act of terror and i also said that we will hunt down

those who committed the crime. a few days later, i was there a greeting the caskets coming into andrews air force base. and greeting with the families -- greeting with the families. the suggestion that anybody on my team, the secretary of state, at the u.n. ambassador, at anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we lost four of our own, governor, is offensive. that is not what we do. that is not what i do as president and that is not what i do as commander-in-chief. >> i think it is interesting the president just said something that on the day after the attack he went to the rose garden and said this was an act of terror. you sat in the rose garden the day after the attack but it was an act of terror?

it was not a spontaneous demonstration. >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get that for the record. it took the present 14 days before he called the attack. >> can you say that a little louder? [applause] >> he did call it an act of terror. it did take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot to come out. >> the administration indicated that this was a reaction to a video, a spontaneous reaction. it took them a long time to say this was a terrorist act. to suggest -- am i incorrect in that regard? the ambassador of the united nations spoke about --

>> i am happy to have a longer conversation about foreign- policy. i want to make sure that all the folks will get their questions answered. >> i want to introduce you to nina gonzales. >> president obama, during the democratic national convention in 2008, you said you wanted to keep ak-47s and of the hands of criminals. what has year administration done or plan to do to limit the availability of assault weapons? >> we are a nation that believes in the second amendment. i believe in the second amendment. we have a long tradition of hunting and sportsmen and people want to make sure they can protect themselves.

but there have been too many instances for ipad to comforts family is who have lost -- were i have had to comfort families who lost somebody. a couple of weeks ago, i saw the mother who i met at the bedside of for some new had been shot in that theater. her son had been shot through the head. we spend some time and we said a prayer and remarkably, about two months later, this young man and his mom showed up and he looked unbelievable. good as new. there were a lot of families who did not have that the fortune. their sons and daughters did not survive. my belief is that we have to enforce the laws we already got,

make sure we're keeping guns out of the hands of criminals or those were mentally ill. we have done a much better job in terms of background checks, but we have much more do in terms of enforcement. i share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers do not belong on our streets. what i am trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how we reduce the violence. can getit seeing if we an assault weapons ban introduced. part of its is looking at other sources of the violence. frankly, in chicago, there is an awful lot of violence and they are not using ak-47s. what can we do to intervene to make sure that young people have opportunity, that our schools are working, that if there is violence on the streets, working with eight groups and law-

enforcement, we can catch it before it gets out of control -- with faith groups and law enforcement, we can catch it before it gets out of control. part of it is also going deeper and seeing if we can get into these communities and making sure we catch violent impulses before they occur. >> governor romney, the questions -- the question is about assault weapons. >> i am not in favor about new pieces of legislation on guns. we do not want to have automatic weapons and that is already illegal in this country. what i believe is we have to do -- make enormous efforts to enforce the gun laws that we have. and to change the culture of violence we have. how are we going to do that? he mentioned good schools. i totally agree.

we're able to drive our schools to be number one in the nation in my state. let me mention another thing. we need moms and dads helping to raise kids. the benefit of having two parents in holland, and that is not always possible. -- parents in the home, and that is not always possible. if there is a two-parent family, the prospect of living in poverty goes down dramatically. the opportunities the job will be able to achieve increased dramatically -- the child will be able to achieve increases dramatically. the greatest failure we have had with regards to the gun violence is what as known as fast and furious. it was a program under this administration.

how works exactly, we do not know. thousands of automatic and ak-47 type weapons were given to people that gave them to drug lords. they use those weapons against their own citizens and killed americans. this was a program -- for what purpose, i cannot imagine. it is one of the great tragedies are related to violence in our society. the american people would like to understand fully. it has been investigated to a degree, but the administration has carried out executive privilege to prevent all the information from coming out. i would like to understand what the idea was behind it. thousands of guns going to mexican drug lords. >> governor, if i could come at the question was about the assault weapons that once were banned and are no longer. i know you signed a weapons ban

when you were in massachusetts.. you know longer do support that. why is that given the kind of violence we see? why have you changed your mind? >> in my state, the pro-gun folks and the anti-gun folks came together and put together a piece of legislation. it is referred to as an assault weapon ban. at the signing of the bill, they came together because it provided opportunities for both. there were hunting opportunities. it was a mutually agreed upon legislation. that is what we need more of. what we have right now when washington is a place that is gridlock. >> if you could get people to agree to it, you would be for it? >> we have not had the leadership in washington to work on a bipartisan basis. >> first of all, governor romney

was for an assault weapons ban before he was against it. he said the reason he changed his mind was in part because he was seeking the endorsement of the national rifle association. that is on the record. one area we agree on is the importance of parents and the importance of schools. i do believe that if our young people have the opportunity, they are less likely to engage in these kind of violent acts. we will not eliminate everybody who is mentally disturbed and we have to make sure they do not get weapons, but we can make a difference in terms of ensuring that every young person in america, regardless of where they come from, has a chance to succeed. we have not had a chance to talk about education, but i think it is important to understand that the reforms to put in place working with 46 governors around the country are seeing schools

better some of the toughest for kids, starting to succeed. we're starting to see gains in math and science. when it comes to community colleges, we're setting up programs to retrain workers, including young people who may have dropped out of school. training them for the jobs that exist right now. employers are looking for skilled workers. we're matching them up, giving them access to higher education. we have made sure that millions of young people are able to get an education they were not able to get before. >> i have to move you along. >> one second. this is important. this is part of the taurus in the selection. when governor romney was asked -- this is part of the choice in this election. when governor romney was asked if hiring more teachers was

important to growing our economy, governor romney said that does not grow our economy. >> i need to move us along. the question was guns. >> this is -- this will make a difference. >> i understand. thank you. i want to ask carol goldberg to stand up. >> the outsourcing of american jobs overseas has taken a toll on our economy. what plans do you have to put back and keep jobs here in united states? >> great question. you're absolutely right. the place we have seen manufacturing go is china. a lot of good people have lost jobs. half a million manufacturing jobs have been lost in the last four years. one of the reasons for that is people think it is more attractive to go offshore than to stay here.

we have made it less attractive for enterprises to stay here than to go offshore. what i will do as president is to make sure it is more attractive to come to america again. this is the way we will create jobs in this country. it is not by trickle-down government. trickle-down government has never worked, never worked anywhere. i want to make america the most attractive place in the w for small business, for big business, to invest and grow in america. we're gong to have to make sure that as we trade with other nations, that they play by the rules. china has not. one of the ways they did not play by the rules is artificially holding down the value of their currency. if they put their currency down low, their prices and their goods are low. that makes them advantageous in the marketplace. we list sales.

-- lose sales. china has been a currency manipulator four years. the president has a regular opportunity to label them as a currency manipulator, but refuses to do so. on day one, i will label china as a currency manipulator. it will allow me to be able to put in place -- they are taking unfair advantage of the manufacturers. we will make sure that people we trade with around the world play by the rules. did not forget what is key to bringing back jobs here. it is not just finding someone else to punish. i will be stripped of people to make sure they follow the law. -- i will be strict with people to make sure they follow the law. i want to bring down the tax rates of small employers, big employers, so they want to be here.

canada's tax rate is now 15%. ours is 35%. if you are starting a business, where would you rather started? we have to be competitive. regulations have quadrupled the rate of regulations -- have quadrupled under this president. small businesses feel like they're under attack from their own government. i want to make sure that regulators say their job as encouraging small business, not crushing it. obamacare has been an extraordinary deterrent to enterprises of all kinds. my party is making sure that we get more people hired if we have more people hired, if we get back manufacturing jobs, if we get back all kinds of jobs, you will see rising incomes again. the reason incomes are down is because unemployment is so high. i know what it takes to get this to happen. my plan will do that. my plan will do that.